Few things frustrate me more than patients diagnosed with cancer that could be cured via conventional medical therapy, who end up resorting to alternative "treatment" options.
I could learn to accept these decisions if these were real legitimate treatments they were exploring, as opposed to the utter quackery offered by exploitative and unscrupulous individuals.
I'm already distraught enough when I have to reveal the diagnosis of cancer to a patient, and I usually spend a good amount of time in clinic discussing the problem, prognosis and various legitimate treatment options. But then my distress turns to perplexity and disbelief when the patient wants to try the new "cancer-fighting" minerals found only in the jungle of Ecuador, or the all juice antioxidant diet or the mind-over-matter cancer protocol. After my initial shock, I stress the simple important fact that this particular cancer can be cured with early treatment. I gently argue and point out the flaws of these so-called treatments, and I state unequivocably that I do not believe these "cures" work. But my words fall on deaf ears, and to my dismay, the patient will shun traditional therapies.
Proponents of these holistic remedies will argue: well, what about a little faith? What about the power of positive thinking? What about good nutrition? And my answer is that I wholeheartedly approve of that.
I'm not saying that I don't believe in the value of good nutrition, with herbal supplements etc.., but I think these work in conjunction with traditional medicine as opposed to in lieu of them. I sincerely do wish these "natural" chemical-free surgery-free remedies would work for cancer. But while I read the testimonials from all these websites touting their success, I remain profoundly skeptical.
The proponents of natural remedies don't mention in their website how many patients they fail to cure. That's because I'm the one that sees my patients return a few months or years later, with the inevitable progression of the disease which has rendered their condition now incurable. I've had patients with bladder cancer, kidney cancer and prostate cancer try these remedies, and I've seen these same patients die when the cancer ate away at their bodies. And the frustration I feel is indescribable.
Friday, September 12, 2008
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25 comments:
These quackery claims are horrible and I can't see how they can continue to make these claims. Unfortunately, I guess the FDA can't regulate them so who can.
Using the "natural" treatments with conventional treatments seems reasonable if a patient wants to try it but curing themselves by drinking from the magical stream is just asinine.
I lost a friend recently over this very issue. Oh, she's is alive and kicking, but I finally had to tell her to take her Central American miracle antioxidant wonderjuice and never again darken my doorway.
I had my cancer-riddled prostate surgically removed not long ago. Yep, the pathologists discovered my cancer had spread. I did 18 weeks of chemotherapy and now at the culmination of 2 years of hormone therapy, she advises me to drop traditional medicine and place my future in the hands of her miracle nectar, juice from a fruit whose name she cannot even pronounce.
But, at least it is really, really expensive stuff. I'm guessing it would have arrived at the house under armed guard. "Hey, it's juice, not the crown jewels!"
Thanks Doc for posting this thread. It's a winner! Let's hope many people read it and get healthy.
Comedy Writer Jerry Perisho
Author, "I Barf, Therefore I Am"
i am with you for the most part...
but have you ever heard about Rene Caisse and Dr. Charles Brush M.D. and their research on Essiac? yes, and herbal tonic/cleanse/cancer treatment!
The story goes that Caisse was given the Ojibwa recipe from a pt. suffering from breast cancer. The herbal tonic helped her get rid of her cancer. Caisee later meets Dr. Brush. They start to do research and manufacture this herbal remedy. In steps the government...drama, drama, drama. FDA shuts them down for manufacturing and distributing an unapproved drug....
i have come across many a cancer patient who swear by it and have GREAT results from using it. perhaps we shouldn't dismiss ALL alternative medicine so quickly...
Sincerely,
a dedicated CMA in urology
PS please don't tell my boss, a prodigious female urologist and my hero, that i told you this. i just got her to stop calling me her "little homeopath."
Such "alternative" treatments are also used in chronic deseases which is awful too. Especially if they are deteriorating through time and proper medication would have slowed the process down.
I couldn't agree with you more, but as I family doctor I do have one advantage in these situations--the continuity of care. While this patient may be lost to you, they'll still usually come to see me along with their spouse, kids, cousins, etc. I've found that over time, and hopefully before it's too late, you can bring those folks back to more effective therapies. Many have such rigid and preconceived notions of "cancer treatment" that they need time to realize the right answer.
I've run across people who go for the alternative treatment. It just seems better to them to pass up surgery and chemo for a unique fruit juice cocktail or mineral drink that "works wonders" and I still don't understand the whole concept of coffee enemas. Celebrities seem to go for these quack cures a lot. I remember Michael Landon on tv talking about them when he was battling (and losing to) pancreatic cancer. Steve McQueen went to Mexico for "alternative treatment" and that ended badly, too.
in order to believe in alternative medicine you honestly have to believe that all docs everywhere are in on the conspiracy to keep you away from things that work. The reality is that there is no alternative medicine because once something is shown to work it becomes real medicine. Whats left that cannot be shown to work remains for the alties to practice.
But if you can be convinced that all the docs get extra money under the table to keep from studying these other things, or that somehow the drug companies make more money not supplying you with drugs and treatments that work.. well then you can be convinced of anything I suppose.
I understand the desperation at that point, but I don't grasp the complete lack of grasp on reality!
I don't know if you've ever watched South Park, but they took on the craziness of Alternative Medicine a few years ago in a great episode. To give you an idea of the tone of the episode the owner of the holistic medicine shop is "Miss Information." You can see a clip here:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152097
I'm facing the possibility of kidney cancer right now (large mass found in my right kidney 6x6x8cms during a ct scan for abdominal cellulitis) and getting ready to lose that kidney.
I know the likelihood that it is cancer, and I want the kidney gone and any treatment deemed necessary. I don't know how anyone could risk their lives to some quackery. Damn, I want to live to be a little old lady surrounded by my husband and grandnieces and grandnephews.
These quack 'cures' really should be illegal, as they do way more harm than good.
O/T, but did you know you were linked to in a New York Times article the other day? Way to go!
A friend told me this week about someone who opted for a Mexican clinic for treatment with drugs not yet approved in the US. "Oh sure," she said, "the place wasn't as clean as hospitals in the US and some of the nurses didn't speak English, but I have never felt better."
Let's see, what's behind door #1... It's the placebo effect! Congratulations, you win; for a minute!
Would you go to Tijuana to get your taxes returns prepared? How about to get yourself out of a legal mess? No? Then, why go for life-saving efforts?
If your heart is set on alternative treatments, then drop me a line. I can grind up and boil dandelion roots, and then chant in tongues with the best of them.
Comedy Writer Jerry Perisho
Author: "I Barf, Therefore I Am"
i can't believe some of you are so freaking narrow minded. you mean to tell me that you wouldn't recommend saw palmetto to a patient with BPH? or flax seed oil to a patient with high cholesterol? well i guess you wouldn't recommend vitamin C to a sailor with scurvy either. after all, vitamin C would be a natural "quackery" cure for what ails them.
I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I'm very well aware that most of this stuff doesn't work, and I wouldn't be nuts enough to hand over my life savings for it. On the other hand, mainstream medicine doesn't necessarily work either, often leaves the patient mutilated, and involves horrid side effects and suffering. All I'm sure of is if I ever get cancer, even if it's found early (unlikely since I shun the medical establishment), I'm dead. I'd rather write my will, take painkillers if need be and die with dignity at home than be cut, burned and poisoned, quite possibly to die anyway but only after suffering, being mutilated, and losing my dignity first. Modern medicine is too fixated on the length of life, without enough emphasis on the quality of life. I think that's part of what drives people to seek "cures" that, while probably not very effective, are at least painless.
I am not narrow minded Ms. Anonymous #1. I have cancer. A college graduate, a 30-year business executive, I researched every alternative and interviewed every kind of doctor I could find. Sure, I could rely on green tea (which I love and drink, by the way) and stewed tomatoes, but I can't bet my life on them.
I am looking death square in the eye and I am doing everything I can to beat the bastard. My cancer has spread and my statistical chances of survival are frighteningly low.
Narrow minded? This is cancer; it is not an enlarged prostate. Saw palmetto will not cure cancer, but some of the experimental drugs I have taken have a chance of doing me some good.
Ms. Anonymous #2, it is easy to say you'd go ahead and die, but many of us want to fight for life, fight for a chance to accomplish things, to achieve goals, to meet our grandchildren. I am shocked to read that you would give up so easily. Have you never battled through pain? Have you never fought for something you love? I trust that when you face the beast that is trying to take your life that you would think better of your current hap-hazard decisions.
Meanwhile, you anonymous bloggers, take your scurvy-minded, cholesterol-lowering opinions over to alternativemedicines.com where they'll swoon over your every word.
Let those of us who are battling for our lives work with modern medicine. Doctors are saving lives!
Comedy Writer and Prostate Cancer Patient Jerry Perisho
Author: "I Barf, Therefore I Am"
Mr. Perisho,
In reply to your questions: no, I've never battled through serious pain, nor do I wish to. If I can't live comfortably and with all my faculties, I don't want to live. Call it giving up if you will. That choice is my right, just as choosing to avail yourself of everything modern medicine can offer you is yours. I respect your choice and ask you to respect mine. Some people wish to fight tooth and nail, others don't think it's worth it. I don't have children, there's nothing other than my cats that I'd care about leaving behind, so I don't see suffering through the cut, burn, and poison approach as worth it. I made that choice years ago. To me the worst case scenario is to live long enough to be disabled, dependent, and stuck in a nursing home.
(Given my family history, cancer is not likely but heart disease and diabetes by my 60's are a near certainty. I do not intend to seek medical care, I do not want to take a bucket of daily medications, go through surgeries, and die slowly like I'm watching family members do. Give me my heart attack and let me go. Turning 40 has not changed that decision). I only hope that interventions are not forced on me, since our medical system does not respect the ability of adults to look at their treatment options and say "No, thanks."
I completely understand that others may make a different choice. You might well beat cancer. I hope you do. However, if you think you're going to beat death, stop deluding yourself because we all die eventually. "The beast" that is death gets us all. We may have some choice in how soon or what manner we go, but death is inevitable.
-Nikki
Hi Nikki,
Your last post made me very sad. You sound sad in it. I do not know you, Nikki, so I will make some general comments and state some opinion here based on assumption.
First, as a young man, I was a very good basketball player. Whether we were playing the best team in the state or the worst team, I gave 100% to win the game. In business, I have worked hard to get ahead. I worked hard to be better than my competitor. So, when I newly faced cancer, I knew that I would battle to beat it. Even if I was in pain.
Why work so hard to live? Because I have so much to live for. I have a wife of 35 years, 3 grown sons, 2 daughters-in-law, and a grandson, all whom I love very much. And they love me; they want me around. I fight hard for them.
For those who do not have a family like mine Nikki, there are people in the world who need you. Your church has a congregation of people in need. The local YMCA or Boys & Girls Club would love to have you volunteer to help their “families”. Feed the hungry at a local homeless shelter. These people need you, and when they meet you they will love you. There is plenty to live for, Nikki.
I am like you Nikki in that I do not want to die a slow, painful death. But, I am certainly willing to tolerate some pain to extend the amount of time I get with the people I love. I am looking death in the eye today. I know I will die some day. But, my goal is to fulfill my role in this life and not to allow death to take me away prematurely.
It is nice to “meet” you, Nikki. Thank you for this interesting discussion. I completely respect your decisions. I wish you the very best!
Jerry Perisho
Author: "I Barf, Therefore I Am"
Anonymous #1 - there's a big difference in using Saw Palmetto for BENIGN Prostatic Hypertrophy and jungle juice for CANCER.
@Jeff - Excellent point.
i was making a comment about what seemed to be the general opinion that ALL alternative medicine was "quackery." i was in no way saying there is a cure for cancer by alternative medicine alone. nor was i trying to say that i am in favor of people tossing modern medicine by the way side for the newest trend in alternative medicine. on the whole i favor alternative medicine as a form of prevention, not cures.
i am a patient advocate. it is THEIR health, not mine. yes, i would love for patients to seek modern medical treatments. but i can never force them too. i have to respect their beliefs and opinions at all times.
nikki...i can also understand where you are coming from. i would like to think that there is some sort of fight in you. but i strongly agree with you that modern medicine is too fixated on the length of life and not the quality. it feels like there isn't a week that goes i am confronted by a patient who's mind is so far gone, who's body is so deteriorated that it makes me pray for death by the age of 80. my co-worker has come out of several patient rooms who have severe dementia and said, "if i ever get like that, please just shoot me." and what's worse is the older these patients get, the more problems they develop, and then the doctors don't want to deal with them because they know its only a short time before they go. and so they turf them off to a different specialist, who in turn sends them to someone else, and so on and so on. i see it happen every day. it is enough to turn your stomach.
i guess what it comes down to is that not everyone agrees on the same sort of treatment. what's ok and right for one patient is not for another. the point is that we need to be advocates for our patients. it is their health and their lives. yes, we can try to persuade them towards what we think and know to be the right treatment. but at the end of the day it is the patient who has to deal with the illness, the treatment, the side effects, the emotions. it is the patient who has to deal with the idea of death and dying.
how comfortable are you with your own mortality? i personally look forward to death. not in a depressed morbid sense, but in a joyful celebratory way. i know i have and am living everyday to the fullest. i know that i challenge myself everyday. if i were to be swept away from this earth tomorrow i would have no regrets. i love life, but i am comfortable with the idea of death.
perhaps that is what bothers all of you the most about these alternative "quackery" ideas. its not the idea that they're going to fail...but what you know what will happen when they do fail.
anonymous #1
Interesting posts and comments!
I think alternative things are great to supplement medicine. Depending on the diagnosis...I would try certain things. But with cancer... I have heard where people beat it going on microbiotic diets, getting to sleep by 10pm, herbal supplements, prayer, etc., but I am in no way advocating those things as a cure. Well...yes to prayer...that is a good thing.
Individual decision.
I can appreciate a doctor's frustration with thee things.
That jungle juice must be MonaVie. A lot of people mispronounce the acai berry. I LOVE that juice but it is too darned expensive and had about 3 cases of it. I do believe I felt better taking it and I don't believe it was a placebo affect.
I love the taste and texture and if it was more affordable I would have my whole family on it and my friends. But it is like 40.00 or so a bottle for one person and it is only a week's supply.
I do use a lot of cinnamon, drink aloe juice, take royal jelly and other vitamins.
One of the ED docs I worked with thought I was crazy to buy whole food vitamins when synthetic works just as well and is cheaper. I just embrace the pure, whole food concept.
I would want to weigh all the facts.
i understand the quality vs quantity and quantity compromised greatly with difficult treatments.
That being said...an aunt of ours fought a valiant fight against breast CA. I am a positive person, but when I heard it was ignored until it was oozing and when she did go...the doc said he couldn't operate because there wasn't enough skin to close it back up, I thought she'd die soon.
But...she responded well to a new chemo drug and 7 months later they did the breast removal surgery. She had other treatments, radiation and more chemo. She responded well. But she did pass away a year later.
She was diagnosed when her cancer was very advanced. She was secretly hoping her lump would go away. She didn't even tell her sister, my m-i-l who had a radical mastectomy that saved her life back in 96. Fear can be powerful.
I do not believe alternative medicine would've helped her at that stage... but the chemo/radiation...gave her more time and she appreciated it all. She always had a smile for everyone, no matter how she felt.
Keagirl, delete this if too long.
I would trust medicine more than herbs...but would do everything I could to enhance what they are doing... but run it past the doctors treating me. Sometimes herbs can conflict with treatments.
I would fight for life too.
I joke that I want to live to be 103yrs old to beat my paternal great grandmother who died just before her 103rd birthday. She was still crocheting and had her mind. :)
It's a goal. :)
the "jungle juice" is not MonaVie. As stated before its called Essiac. Its common name is Flor-Essence. this is a direct quote from the National Cancer Institute, "In 2004, a laboratory study at Indiana University-Purdue University reported that Essiac slowed the growth of prostate cancer cells."
It should be noted that Flor-Essence is a cleanser and should not be used by healthy people for any extended period of time...say anything longer than a month and you could hurt yourself.
Juliann... I was responding to Jerry Parisho's comments above yours where he said "she advises me to drop traditional medicine and place my future in the hands of her miracle nectar, juice from a fruit whose name she cannot even pronounce.
But, at least it is really, really expensive stuff. I'm guessing it would have arrived at the house under armed guard. "Hey, it's juice, not the crown"
His description could fit MonaVie juice and people have a hard time remembering the pronunciation of the "acai" berry.
But I will write the name of the product you speak of and ask my urologist what he knows about it. It doesn't apply to me but would be a good thing to know about.
Hi, I like your blog. It is true that at the present time the advances in science and medicine have gone too far and still not all the illnesses and diseases can by cured with the methods of science. That is why some times people tend to apply for help to Alternative Medicine. As a matter of fact it is also not always helpful. People complain. And on this great site www.pissedconsumer.com you can find some feedbacks of the disappointed customers.
Just curious...When examining male patients' genitalia, do they get aroused? If so, what's the percentage erect vs. flaccid? What do you do in those situations when their penises are "in your face"?
Do you also fix foreskin problems WITHOUT circumcision?
Urostream, I tried to follow the comment stream and finally gave up in frustration at the bickering. I'll try to answer your question from my perspective and tell you why I chose what I chose. I sat in a room and a doctor that I'd never seen before came in to tell me that I had several large masses in my left breast and he was certain they were cancer. He was also certain that I already had lymphatic invasion and that the cancer was most likely spreading throughout my body. My best hope was to see a surgeon immediately to begin treatment. Over the following days I was told about my cancer. I was also told that I needed to start chemotherapy right away and the result would be to distroy any fast growing cells in my body, both healthy and unhealthy ones. My hair would fall out. I would be nauseated. I possibly would get blisters in my mouth and on my hands and feet. I would likely have a compromised immune system that would leave me with an increased risk of other cancers. Then I would face a mutilating surgery and radiation treatments that would likely leave me with lymphedem in my arm. It would possibly leave me with chronic pain. It would not guarantee that I would survive the cancer. It would make it more likely to get other cancers. My body would never be my idea of what normal was for my body again. My life would change, and not really in positive ways. My friend had just come back from a treatment center in Mexico where his Lymphoma appeared to be in remission from alternative medicines and a microbiotic diet. My crazy herb lady friend wanted me to ditch my doctors and drink essiac teas that she could import from Canada for me and grow mushrooms in my closet to brew kumbucha tea. Even the information that I was getting from the US Department of Health and Human Services, National Institute of Health(Coping With Advanced Cancer, Pages 20 and 21) discussed using Accupuncture, Imagery, Relaxation, Hypnosis, Biofeedback and Massage Therapy. It was not the only "Official Information" guideline recommending whoo, most of them do. It seemed that conventional medicine was saying "you are dying and the treatment will be worse than the disease, you might not survive it and if you do it may kill you later anyway. You might as well try these snake oil treatments offered by the herbalist." The alternative medicine doctors were saying "don't trust your doctors, they aren't telling you the truth because if they tell you what can cure your cancer, they will be out of business." This was cancer, and there was a sense to me that I was going to die of it anyway, it may not have been accurate, but it is the reputation that cancer has. It was tempting to try the snake oil, but I wouldn't go to them with a head ache, so why would I trust them with my life? I started the chemo and before the treatment was finished, the tumors had shrunk to microscopic sizes and were not solid masses any more. I did the radical mastectomy and the radiation and have practiced watchful waiting since.I don't know if the decision I made was the absolute best, but it the way I thought I stood the best chance to survive long enough to finish raising my children. My friend who went into remission in Mexico had a recurrance two years later and went through a bone marrow transplant. He's doing well, but like me is coping with the long term effects of the medical treatments. He doesn't regret doing either treatments. Cancer is one of those medical situations were you really have to do what you feel is best for your survival and not worry about what anyone else thinks about it. There are very few absolutes in it.
But annonymous; lose weight, exercise daily and eat a diet rich in whole grains, fruits and vegetables and it will do an enormous amount toward staving off the diabetes and heart disease that you think are inevitable.
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