This is a real interaction I had with a patient monday morning, almost verbatim:
I knock and enter the examining room, and extending my hand to my new patient, I greet him :
"Good morning!"
The patient takes one look at me, and standing up to exit the room, he says:
"I think we're done here".
"I'm sorry, is there a problem?"
"Yes, I didn't realize you were a woman".
End of story, the patient leaves my office....
Most of the time, these encounters are avoided because most of my patients know they are coming to see a female urologist, or the front desk lets them know I am a woman. In fact, a large number of my patients see me because I am a woman. Occasionally, I get the surprised reaction from a couple of my male patients, but usually they do not have an issue with my gender.
What I object to is the rudeness of that first patient whose first words to me were:"I think we're done here...". I understand if you (male patient) don't feel comfortable with me (female physician) doing a DRE (digital rectal exam) on you. Personally, I always seek out a female gynecologist or a female internist for my own medical needs. But have you ever heard of a female patient rudely leaving the office because she didn't know her new doctor was a man?
The other recent incident was a patient who had been admitted to the hospital for intractable pain from his kidney stone. I was the urologist on call, so I saw the patient on the ward, and told him that he needed a stent (small plastic tube to temporarily bypass kidney blockage due to the stone). To make a long and exceedingly frustrating story short, he basically refused the have the procedure done because of a lack of confidence in the fact that I was a female physician. He trusted neither my medical judgement, nor my surgical abilities. Since he "fired" me as a doctor, I proceeded to discharge him from the hospital since no other urologists were available, and he sought care somewhere else. And to make things worse, I had to explain myself to the hospital administrator....Now this episode left me absolutely shaking with anger and frustration. I'm afraid that this patient is in for a rude awakening, considering that over 50% of medical school graduates are now women....
Thursday, February 16, 2006
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72 comments:
So is there an appropriate way to state a preference for a doctor who's male/female? Or am I just wrong to have a preference?
Great blog here; I'm enjoying reading it!
No, there is nothing wrong about having a preference, and usually this is worked out before you even see the physician, when you are making the appointment with the scheduling desk.
However, I do think that particular patient handled the situation quite poorly and rudely...
Thanks for the encouragement Bardiac!
Cuts both ways you know. As a medical student I once had a thrombosed hemorrhoid. It was a Saturday so I called my (female) PMD. She said to meet her in the ER where she performed a thrombectomy - in front of a nurse and a nursing student. So there is me in the jacknife position in front of 3 women, all fairly attractive ones (which actually makes it worse).
What makes this an illustration of double standards is that when I made a comment about how emarassing the whole thing was - the nurse said "Oh, you have a cute butt, don't worry about it".
OK, now flip the genders of the principal participants in this Tale of Tushes. Offensive?
Now, as an attending I need chaperones every time I need to examine a woman's underwear zone whereas you have considerably more freedom.
about female patients leaving the office-not exactly as you put it, but there is a female patient on dialysis in our group who refuses to let any male doc round on her-she actually has a curtain around her when i round in the unit! She belongs to a certain religious group...
Someone alerted me to your post when I wrote recently about my preference for seeing a woman gynecologist. My post (which refers to another post on the same topic) can be found here:
http://happyfeminist.typepad.com/happyfeminist/2006/02/the_happy_femin.html#comment-14257015
There are some advantages in being a female urologist (in training): when I saw this guy complaining about his 'crooked' penis, the erection he had when I started the physical examination proved him wrong! (ofcourse I had to listen to the jokes of my (male)colleagues the rest of the day!)
Indeed, Suzanne, one of the members of my circle of friends found out (after not listening to the desk person warning him that his Doctor was female) by her walking in and introducing herself. As it turns out she was pretty darn close to his most precious fantasy, got aroused immediately, apologised profusely and beat a hasty retreat, before he left even more embarrasssed.
Be gentle with us men, we still get bothered by those little unannounced tumulesences.
"little tumescences?" That should be your first change of language. Female docs, in my experience, get away with far more then males. Many times if you flipped the circumstances, the male doc would be in BIG trouble. Problem is, female docs try to use both their feminine side and the MD side. And when I say feminine I mean the, "I'm just a girl--there's nothing to be afraid of" attitude. If you're going to say things like mentioned above about the cute butt, no wonder why the current attitudes prevail for male patients. I've had women patients ask for a female and I simply left and let someone else dela with it. I'm not there to force myself on a patient. I'm there to provide care. If the patient wants care from an Asian, lesbian, left-handed Buddhist, I'll try to get them one. NOT go whining about it.
I recently had knee surgery and the nurse had to shave my leg--made a joke/comment about not shaving up too far which the female doc in the room doing her assessment chuckled about. Professional? Had a physical and the female doc had a nurse AND a nursing student in the room during the turn and cough? Why was the student in there? Makes NO sense at all. Not like they could see anything as my back was to them but was baffled.
Thank you for your candid and edifying article. I find the statistic that >560% of new MD's are female, encouraging (although I imagine more women than men are distracted from their careers by childrearing).
Perhaps obviously, "...because she didn't know her new doctor was a man?" loses its impact when you consider that sexism is not exclusively male, people are rarely surprised that a doctor is male.
Stereotypes are often pervasive and persuasive, but only most useful if they are mostly true.
As to his unkind & discourteous behavior, I have observed that people generally do more harm to them selves and others, out of embarrassment or fear of it, than out of malice. Perhaps knowing this can make such arrows less wounding.
Oops! that was >50%, not >560%
Different field, but I rememer years ago when I did computer tech support over the phone a lot of female callers would say they were glad they got a man this time. I always would let that drop and move on but it really frustrated me the assumption that what I had between my legs was what made me qualified (or not) to tell you how to fix your computer. Oddly enough, I many, many more SOL callers who had been told to do incredibly stupid what were they thinking things to their system by their previous male tech than those who had dealt with females.
Dr. Kea
It's a pleasure to read your blog. You have some very interesting insight into what has traditionally been a male dominated field. Personally, all of my physicians are female, and I like the extra measure of care that they provide. If there were a female urologist in my are that was taking male patients, I would gladly schedule my office visits with them. Trouble is, I don't know how to find one in my area.
Thanks for listening, keep up the good work!
Dr Keagirl, I found your blog from a link on Medscape. I'm not in health care,but my wife, mother, sister, daughter-in-law and sister-in-law are all nurses, interesting, but back to the point. They all have so many anecdotes about sexism and gender bias, but I would just like to say I think I could talk to a female urologist more easily than to a male. Thanks for the wonderful blog, you are a credit to the profession!
ah yes...the female doctor!!!! when i moved to California and an HMO i was asked if i minded having a female doctor....and to be truthful my mind was racing with objections!!! i am the father of 4 daughters and raised by sisters so being the macho feminist i said no. then i had that moment when you look into the mirror and say "what the hell were you thinking!" well i still have her and she has been truly a blessing in understanding that i am a very active patient in my health issues. she makes suggestions on medication and i do the research...we are a great team and that is the way medicine should be seen...it is a team effort. i have moved twice and yet i keep her tho it takes a train ride to get to her. i understand why some would prefer their own sex but for me what is more important is having someone who trusts you and blood work that shows you are on the right track to keeping healthy...it is a two way conversation with the ultimate goal a healthy life. besides all that....never anger your sister is something i learned long, long ago
I am a male, in a health care field, EMS. I really enjoy reading your blog. I personally would rather see a female doc than male, they seem to listen better, are much easier to talk to, and care more about their patients. My PCP is a female. She does not have a nurse in the room while doing a DRE or a genital exam on me and I thank her for that. It would be very embarrassing to have another person, other than my wife in the room. I think its kinda gay to go to a male doctor for this exam. Allthough, I have worked with some female doctors I never cared for, due to over hearing some sexual comments about male patients. Most generally, I seek out a female physician if one is available. I wish there were more female Urologist, specializing in adult male urology.
I am lucky enough to see a female Nurse Practioner for my health needs. I have the utmost respect for her abilities. The annual physical causes no anxiety embarassment on either of our parts. I'm a fifty six year old male, and my only words for other men coming face to face with a female clinition is "grow up and deal with it, ya wimp"
When a female patient refuses an intimate exam by a male doctor the male doctor is made to feel like a potential sex offender. When a male patient refuses an exam with a female doctor the male patient is the sexist. In both cases the male is the 'offender' and the female the victim. Double standards seem to be the highest in the medical field.
As for the future of medicine. Most growth of western countries comes from immigration from far more private races than we have here. Once they become the voting majority expect to see gender specific institutions like they are starting to have in Europe.
I don't know if this is the right forum to post this question, but I've been having little success finding answers on my own. I recently visited my urologist for what I call a "well visit". I have a PRN order for antibiotics for chronic UTI's. Since I had first seen him over four years ago, I've had great success with cranberry extract pills to ward off my UTI's without antibiotics. I've had only four UTI's that required my PRN prescription antibiotics. I had to call for a new order, which he had no problem giving, but he wanted to see me, since it has been four years since my last visit. I can understand this, especially because of insurance and all that. During my visit, I told him that I was doing very well, no real complaints, and my urine test came back perfect. He asked if I saw a GYN, which I said I had an appointment with her in a few weeks for my yearly. I was nearly floored when he wanted to do a "female" exam, as he called it. He didn't want to do any sort of scope into the bladder or anything like that. I really felt this was unnecessary, since I was having no problems and told him so much. He said I had a right to refuse and that was the end of it. Is it common practice to do a "female" exam during a well-visit? I just don't see what he possibly could have learned if he didn't intend to do a scope of some kind. The whole situation made me extremely tense, as I felt very strongly that it wasn't necessary. I'd really like feedback from other professionals. I do intend to ask my GYN as well when I see her in a couple of weeks, but this has been bothering me since my visit.
My question is this. I would like to go to a female physician (neurologist), but the thought of taking off my under ware for an exam gives me an erection. I don't know if that is what would actually happen or not but it seems likely. So it has nothing to do with not wanting a female doctor just not knowing what is appropriate. What percentage of guys get an erection with a genital exam by a female doctor? I might not feel like I'm being rude if this is normal.
don'twannaberude
"I think its kinda gay to go to a male doctor for this exam." This from an EMS person! Sounds like you have some issues to work out. I pity any GLBT individuals who have to encounter you. I'm also appalled that the health care "professional" who made a comment about a patient's "cute butt" wasn't disciplined. Having worked in a health care setting, I now encourage friends and family to avoid anything but basic communication with their providers (this because of the comments and jokes made about patients after they leave). While many providers wouldn't stoop to this type of behavior, enough of them do and in the process further undermine confidence in the health care professions.
Hi, this blog is very informative and I enjoyed reading it. I (male)also prefer female physicians but sometimes you are made to feel a little uncomfortable if you ask for a female doc. But I would like to see a female urologist, does anyone know if there is a list of female docs anywhere or do I just have to search the yellow pages?
This issue hits home for me. I'm an adult hetero male and I needed a new PCP, and neighbor recommended a practice which, unkown to me, has all female docs. I like the one I was assigned. She told me a physical was long overdue, and I agreed. Now I'm having a lot of anxiety over the prospect of it. Yes, I can suck it up and be a man, but should I tell her I'm having issues. I think she senses it because she told me we could skip the DRE. It really seems weird.
I'm a male who would never chose to go to a female urologist. No
problem. I find a male doctor.
My issue is that 80% of these
doctors then employ a female
sonographer for ultrasound work. I imagine they are doing this so they have little or no need for a chaperone during sonography on females and they get an extra staff member who can sometimes serve as their chaperone, too.
Find me a situation in OB/GYN where this mixed-gender staffing would be acceptable for women with no options in sight. Occasionally, female urologist add insult to injury by actually wanting a female chaperone for their own exams or those of their female sonographers when there is no medical need. There is total disregard for the feelings of many male patients in these proceedings. I'm not gay, I'm
not homophobic, I'm not into
clothed-females/naked males fetishism. The only time I want to be naked with a woman is when I'm having sex with her. This
is pure medical discrimination against a large portion of men seeking treatment in urology(and
the probably larger portion not seeking treatment because of it).
If I was telling you this in person, doctor, I wouldn't be
using a sweet, Irish accent.
Many men would prefer to see a male health care provider and this is their choice. Their body, the doctor is getting paid to provide a service so the patients wishes come first. Here in Australia the only time I get a genital examination is if I find something wrong. (Only twice in my 35 years) I am a big boy and can do my own testicle exam, If I find something then I go to the doctor. Have never had and dont plan on DRE. I am married so my wife and I check each others skin for skin cancers etc. The one and only time I have seen a urologist is when I considered vascectomy, and he was male. People need to become more proactive in thier care. Choose the gender that makes you more comfortable, dont do anything the doctor asks you to unless you are comfortable, cover the bits they dont need to see etc. Be assertive not aggressive.
As a physician I find Dr Keagirl's post somewhat perplexing. Rude and unpleasant physicians just as much as rude and unpleasant patients are part of the job. I can't imagine starting a blog to complain about a rude patient.
So lets assume her major complaint is her rejection because of her sex. Gender neutral care would be ideal, but we all know that's not the way the world is. We all pick physicians that we feel comfortable with, and many factors go into it including gender. It is hypocritical of Dr Keagirl to use only female ob-gynes and to not give her patients the same choice. Only men seem to be blamed if they do this; no one denies a woman her choice of same gender care. But many men are just as modest as women if not more so.
Indeed most men prefer male urologists. Mine is though he is also a friend. Others don't care. Of the men who prefer women urologists a significant percentage do so for inappropriate reasons. They either get sexually excited by being examined by a woman or they are severely homophobic and don't want any man touching them.
Your patient just expressed a preference which anyone is entitled to. The fault was your practice's, not his. Given that >90% of urologists are men, he should have been given a choice when he made the appointment and not surprised. If you are in a field treating men's genitals, you have to be prepared for some preferences on the matter, just as you expressed for female ob-gynes.
I agree that the patient did act rudely. I however, think that he did have the right to walk out and seek care elsewhere. We are the paying customers and should be respected no matter what. He have the right to choose who cares for us and it shouldn't be disputed. You choose female caregivers yourself so I don't understand the double standard? I would've shook your hand and said nice to meet you, then would've said I'm sorry, I didn't realize you where a women and I'd prefer to see a male. There's nothing wrong with that.
So you had a rude male patient. Sorry about that. But what should be bothering you more is the fact that this patient made it as far as your examining room without knowing you were a female doctor. If he was a woman coming to a male doctor for any form of pelvic care, your office staff would have pointed this out, immediately, and then had a discussion of chaperones, ad nauseam. I bet you didn't go out to your office staff and complain that this patient hadn't been informed you were a female doctor when he booked the appointment. Actually, things could have been worse if this man had held his tongue(as so many do),suffered through the exam, and left hating himself for doing so for months afterward. By the way, do you offer your male patients a choice of gender care in sonographers? It'd be nice if you replied to these posting every once in a while. It appears your cheering section has left the arena. Sorry again, that your patient was rude but the bigger apology here should go to the man involved.
Dr. Keagirl - just found out about your Urostream blog from the Bioethics Blog, Patient Modesty.
Came by to see what the issue was. I must say that I don't agree with the point you are taking. Modesty is not sexism. There is a great distinction between the two. Saying, "I'd be embarassed to have a women do that to me" is not the same as saying, "No women could be
competent to do that." You're blurring the issue here. In the hospital where I've worked as a nurse for the past eight years we've seen a quadrupling of male modesty cases in the past year or
so. We have laughed among ourselves, "What's gone wrong with the guys?" You are right that there are now a lot more young female doctors entering the profession. But I can assure you patients are not getting "use to it" as you expect they will have to. I strongly suggest you re-evaluate your attitude here. It's only going to cause you trouble. Otherwise, thanks for an informative blog. nursekaren
I have just been through extensive treatment: sugery, chemo, radiaothterapy etc over the past 18 months in the public hospital system in Australia. As a male and somewhat modest in this context, I have virtually no say in the sex of those treating me, and absolulely no opprtunity to choose th sex of the doctor or nurse treating me. Any respect for my modesty (as a male)has been at my instigation and I have to state my "preferences" with this every single time. I have taken to seeing specialists privately and paying the difference between what health care system pays and their fees out of my own pocket, in order to get some choice.
I am constatly struck at how the concerns of women are taken into account so much more frequently even in our public system.
I am afraid that the responses to most to your intial comments reflect that many of us think that your views perpetuate this "double standard", regardless of how the patient may have expressed his views.
Is your failure to respond to all these comments a reflection that you too may have regretted your intial blog?
I fully agree with nurse karen. I find the characterization of Dr Kea's patients as sexist to be outrageous. As the physician who posted above, my comments should have been stronger.
If her patients were sexist than Dr Kea and over half the women in this country are equally sexist. My 30 something daughters both use female ob-gynes. I questioned one daughter over it and she said that it was just less embarrassing to have a woman doctor, especially for one time visits. She also said that all her friends were like that and she didn't see how male ob-gynes could stay in business. I don't think it's that bad for men, but it's a reflection of what the field is now like. I have seen several allusions to discrimination and harassment against male ob residents in training. In fact male ob's are still needed as they tend to be more available for call than their women peers with families. In fact when this same daughter delivered, her ob was on a pregnancy leave and she was delivered by a man.
In short, some women are quick to accuse men of sexism, but don't seem to recognize the same symptoms in themselves. Indeed none of this is real sexism, just patients going with their level of comfort. The more cross gender exposure there is, the degree of discomfort generally diminishes.
I would agree the patient could have been more civil, but as stated his reaction could have been from being surprised and embaressed. The other point as stated it was wrong for him it get that far without being told. There is a huge double standard in the medical field at it most often cuts against men. Men are sexist if they prefer male providers, females are just exerting their rights. If a male wanted to be a mamographer...would have to be a predator, male nurses have been barred from L&D and the courts upheld it. Can you imagine a male GYN with a male assistant or nurse, or if a male Dr. wanted a male chaparone, not going to happen. And while we as a society made an effort to bring more females in the ranks of Physicians, we have made no such efforts in nursing where 90% are female. If you want to talk about sexism in medicine, might start with some of those issues. I am glad there are females in urology for men who feel more comfortable with them, same with males gyns, but don't think it is sexism for a male to have a preference, but not when a female does. Dr.'s have to understand your decision to practice in a paticular field does not trump patient choice. I have experienced a lot of the double standard as the father of two daughters...that said, there is no excuse for him not to be civil about it...as stated above, a simple I prefer a male provider would do, but you have to remember, males have been called to task for expressing that opinion many times..thanks for the forum and good luck
I would agree the patient could have been more civil, but as stated his reaction could have been from being surprised and embaressed. The other point as stated it was wrong for him it get that far without being told. There is a huge double standard in the medical field at it most often cuts against men. Men are sexist if they prefer male providers, females are just exerting their rights. If a male wanted to be a mamographer...would have to be a predator, male nurses have been barred from L&D and the courts upheld it. Can you imagine a male GYN with a male assistant or nurse, or if a male Dr. wanted a male chaparone, not going to happen. And while we as a society made an effort to bring more females in the ranks of Physicians, we have made no such efforts in nursing where 90% are female. If you want to talk about sexism in medicine, might start with some of those issues. I am glad there are females in urology for men who feel more comfortable with them, same with males gyns, but don't think it is sexism for a male to have a preference, but not when a female does. Dr.'s have to understand your decision to practice in a paticular field does not trump patient choice. I have experienced a lot of the double standard as the father of two daughters...that said, there is no excuse for him not to be civil about it...as stated above, a simple I prefer a male provider would do, but you have to remember, males have been called to task for expressing that opinion many times..thanks for the forum and good luck
The days of women being able to keep crying wolf about inequality are over. They are now given far more rights than men in almost all walks of life. In prisons, women may supervise male prisoners showering, the converse is not true, in healthcare all female teams for embarrassing and intrusive procedures are commonplace for women, men who ask for equal treatment are greeted with disdain. It is long overdue that men started to fight back and stand up for themselves and their sex, two wrongs do not make a right! The title of this blog is absolutely spot on, the attitude of keagirl is indeed sexism at its most pronounced
About 10 days ago I went to a urologist for the first time and I had looked up his info on the hospital website so I would know who I was seeing. As it turned out, my history and initial genital exam was done by a female med student. It wasn't a problem at all, it just wasn't what I was expecting. This was followed by an exam by the male urologist while the student watched.
I am starting to see more women med students and doctors just as Dr. Keagirl stated. It really isn't an issue to me. I just want a thorough exam that finds out if anything is wrong so it can be taken care of. Some problems were noted, but nothing that needs to be taken care of any time soon.
I am a 63 year old male. When I needed a Urologist, I personally asked for a female Urologist I had met earlier. She is great. I have no modesty issues with her. She is a fine doctor, and I am able able to talk to her about anything, especially ED. So not every man is a sexist, just don't let a few stupid male jerks color your thinking. When I had certain problems I took my wife with me to see my doc and she discussed it all and put us at ease, this is the sign of a good doctor, male or female.
MJ_KC & Deane, I am delighted for you that you feel that way.
That a male should require a male doctor is perfectly understandable and should never be classed as sexism.
Women have for years had the right to all female care for Obs/Gyn and quite rightly so if that is what they wish.
Men have righst too, and Urology is an area of medicine which involves deeply embarrassing, intrusive and humiliating procedures, if a man finds them more tolerable in front of other men only, that should be their choice.
Surely it is NOT the ego of the doctor or nurse that matters, but the feelings of the patient
I have chose a female dermatologist for my anual skin exam. During this appointment a male doctor was sent in to check my skin before the scheduled doctor. Later, she came in and only checked the areas that he made note of (none below the belt). This waisted my time and his and should not have happened if the doctor I made the appt with is avoiding checking male patients she should indicate this to her scheduling staff.
I agree. A female doctor involved
with any care involving pelvic nudity should realize that when a man requests to be examined by a female doctor he is homophobic and sending in or substituting a male doctor is not acceptable, just because the patient is a male. There are gender-sensitive males who need male doctors and technicians. There are also homophobic men who need to have the same care given by all female staffs. Let's not lump them together in medical care.
I think your attitude is inappropriate. I don't have any modesty issues considering I've slept with over 500 women. I prefer
to see male nurses and physicians
just so that I can de-power you
stupid little wanna be girls. You
want your cake and eat it too. Wake
up, times are changing. In conclusion, I don't believe women
can be trusted. Go to allnurses.com
do a search for whoa..inappropriate. Then see who
the perverts are.
As a physician who considered OB-Gyn, I have some harsh reality to share. I was told by my male attendings, don't go into this field - the vast majority of younger (under 50) patients - the future of the field, want female practitioners.
Well, as a male - that empowers me to want a male urologist, and also females should think twice before entering this profession. The vast majority of males want nothing to do with a female urologist. Just as the vast majority of females would prefer a female.
If this disturbs you - then pursue fellowship in uro-gyn. Otherwise, go into academics, but don't whine about it unless you're prepared to tell your female friends not to consider gender in a ob-gyn.
As the physician who posted above, that was exactly my point. It's clear that the majority of young women prefer female ob-gynes as does Keagirl herself.
To accuse men of being sexist but not women who do the same thing is outrageous.
The only female urologist in my area advertises her practice for women. If Keagirl thinks men are sexist, she should do the same.
Patients may chose their doctor on any criteria they want, and if he is more comfortable with a male doctor he should not labeled sexist.
Maybe he is embarassed? I know that my wife prefers a female gyno, yet she isnt sexist.
It appears that this site is now being moderated again. I note the posts which are not making it onto the sire are ones which do not praise Kiagirl, that shows how fragile her ego and case really is.
I'm a guy who doesn't want another guy touching me. Stumbled here trying to find a female urologist.... Gotta get this lump looked at....
I feel sorry for guys like you. You see a doctor for your health. It is NOT a sexual encounter.
Get the lump looked at with whoever is available.
I wish the author of the article would respond and explain how she can consider the male patients reaction to be sexist, but not her own when she intentionally goes to a female GYN. Personally I can't understand how she could not see the hypocracy of her actions/attitude...but maybe I am missing something. The double standard is one of the pillars of sexism.....how can this not be obvious to her? Really, I would like to hear from her side....
She will not respond, idnignant disgust by a female must be accepted and not challenged. Women are allowed to request female teams, if men request male teams they are being sexist, surely you can understand that, how can that be a "double standard"
Laughs uncontrollably
RE: PROVIDER PATIENT SEXUAL INTERACTION AND ACCEPTANCE
Dr. Keagirl
By torching me if you could just know what I was thinking it would make it so much easier. Writing is slow and difficult.
It feels good to be touched and to feel relief of pain and fear. It is not expressions of sexuality that is the problem but when they are used to bully and intimidate.
Sexuality is part of our humanity. There will most likely be sexual thoughts, responses and behaviors between providers and patients this is I believe the norm. To state otherwise is the height of political correctness and self-dilution.
It is how the provider sets the stage that will shape the experience of both participants. The standard devises of dress, speech, demeanor and technique are used to maintain a comfort level for both.
A provider’s age, sex, race, religion, life experiences and patient contact experiences are an amalgam of attributes that determine demeanor.
THE FOLLOW IS NOT WHAT I WANTED TO SAY ORIGNALLY. IT IS THE SMALL ABUSES THAT OCCURS EVERYDAY THAT I WANTED TO ADDRESS BUT THERE MAY BE SOME VALUE TO WHAT I HAVE ALREADY WRITEN.
Telling stories is the best way for me to communicate.
An ROTC Lt. was holding a pipe. He reminded me of Lt. Fuzz in the comic Beetle Bailey. Confronting him with the fact that he did not smoke he said he wanted to look older. The giggling med student grew a beard. Driving him to the train, I said why the beard? He kept being asked to leave patient’s rooms.
Volunteering in a nursing home and changing the diapers of my girlfriend’s father is my only clinical experience. He was a surgeon who developed Huntington’s disease.
Being a patient is my true clinical experience. During Christmas break, I was scheduled for a hernia operation. Within minutes of meeting the surgeon, I followed him to the nearest office. He said get out (Think the Terminator) to the X-ray tech sitting at her desk while brushing her paperwork aside. He ordered me to lie on her desk. Probing with his thumb was so intense I felt it was an assault. He never told what he was going to do.
The day of the operation the anesthesiologist asked routine questions and I asked how the operation would be done. She left and in a short while two nurses came to prep me. As I was being shaved, the surgeon pulled the curtain away, pushed the flat of his hand into the center of the chest of one nurse almost knocking her down as she grabbed the curtain. She yelled you fagot. He then pushed the OR release in my face and said sign it. I did a perfect sit-up covering myself I signed the form. He did it again. I signed in the wrong place without my glasses on.
During the operation he mocked me frequently. The next day, I walked home two miles and did not get out of bed for two weeks.
I sent him a certified letter, which he did not sign for. Then I gave copies to the Directors of Medicine/Nursing and one of the nurses present. That nurse said he had thrown instruments and was no longer on a cardiac team. She was caring for his brother privately and providing services not covered by insurance. Giving her the flowers I had, she offers to give me oral sex for $20. Feeling badly I said I was not interested but we could go to a movie. Arriving at her house she seated me on the couch, got me a drink, reached over un- zippered my pants and tried to give me oral sex. Spilling my drink, laughing nervously I told her to stop. I had to pull her hand off. She said it was free. I said I don’ t care. I stayed for dinner. She said she has had sex with a patient while she was bent over a sink and with the ambulance crew in a linen closet.
A year later, the Director of Medicine sat next to me at a diner. Turning to my left, I shouted the surgeon’s name. The Director jumps from his seat, runs for the door shouting I am not the surgeon. They looked alike. Now that was fun.
The timing of the operation was important. This was a work injury. I needed my job. Also I did not want to miss nursing classes scheduled for next term.
The prior term was interesting, every time I would leave biology lecture I would get my bottom squeezed by fellow students. They also toilet papered my seat in class. At the end of the term a single girl slowly walked down from the back of the lecture hall eating an apple. When only the core remained, she un-zippered my book bag and throw it in and walked away slowly. I stood up and with a swing of my arm fully extended with the flat of my hand made perfect contact with her bottom. It was a very loud slap. A group of nursing students stood up and applauded.
There was a particularly sad day in the cafeteria. Three nursing students were reading a book written by Jesuits called smut. As I sat reading the book, the student to my right ran her hand up the inside of my leg. I did not react. In front of the other students she pulled her halter-top so I could see her breasts. She said what do you think of these. With a deadpan expression, I said they look both the same. As the others left, she told me that her husband sold her to an adult bookstore for $100 and that her neighbor came in one day. She told him to stay and she watched him masturbate.
When I later heard a janitor in an empty OR had raped her, I was still angered over my operation and I just withdrew from the class. She got her grades back up and graduated.
If I got a job at the vet school I could go to nursing school for free. At least that was the game plan to try again.
There seems to be a fair amount of complaining on this thread, yet very little actual substance. First of all, most men are afraid of the physician visit, no matter which gender is performing the exam. Between a male or female physician, the choice is clear: The most qualified. If someone chose to see a female physician over a more qualified male physician, said person lacks a necessary trait in common sense-- self-preservation. If I were to undergo a urological procedure, and the most qualified surgeon happened to be a woman, what would I care? If she needed to perform a DRE, or other such procedure prior to the actual surgical procedure, then fine-- I'd like to live.
We're so caught up on gender dynamics and making perfect definitions for patriarchy, misogyny, misandry, etc that we forget to just live life. For God's sake, there's nothing more annoying than people who continue to dissect society along gendered lines. Let's all live like humans and attempt to transcend those socially constructed (and idiotic) boundaries.
-- A Humanistic Male.
No one has argued that one shouldn't pick the best qualified physician possible regardless of gender. You miss the point of the arguments here though. Keagirl doesn't do this herself when she says she chooses female gynecologists for herself. So she bases her choice on gender but calls patients of hers who do the same sexist if they reject her, but not if they prefer her.
It is her total hypocrisy that is the cause of the complaints about this thread. She calls others sexist, but doesn't recognize it in herself.
Dear Doctor Keagirl;
Being a male rape victim gang raped; brutally tortured, beaten and sodomized at the hands of sadistic bullies always brings terrifying memories and fears that can sometimes seem unrelenting. I'm not really sure what recollections you men and women here have personally contemplated when it comes to the yearly physical at the doctors office. In particular for me personally I'm paraphrasing ("the dreaded prostate rectal exam"). Not something I think most men would rather think about when your family physician deems it a necessary criteria.
If you happen to be over forty and in my case fifty it becomes an annual ritualistic medical requirement. Lets be honest; I don't think any of us older guys look forward to this embarrassing exam, coupled with the fact of having your testicles checked out at the same time. If you happen to be a male rape victim suffering with P.T.S.D., such an invasive medical procedure can really trigger the onset of strong painful memories of the past. As for me; I get extremely nervous if my family doctor schedules a full physical. My new family doctor is female. Yeah she is aware about my traumatic rape past. Not quite sure if she is really that sympathetic though. For most doctors faced with carrying out this invasive procedure; it's all about routine professionalism and the mundane business at hand. No pun intended. I would think the average doctor takes a nonchalant professional attitude when carrying out prostate exams. Hell; do they ever give a second thought about how the patient feels about being on the receiving end of this invasive procedure ? Not a damned chance that I have witnessed. I'm sure some men and woman here can speak about some bad experiences with doctors performing invasive medical exams. I don't know; am I the only rape victim who entertains strong fear of having to go through invasive medical exams. I hate having to talk about this embarrassing topic like no tomorrow.
My health is not the best struggling with health related issues such as cardiac problems and being an insulin dependent diabetic which has caused me to develop kidney problems. Recently; my family physician has referred me to see a urologist who wants to perform some invasive bladder test. I think they call it a cystoscopy. If you only knew how much extreme fear I'm having about this. How the hell do I confront these fears. I'm almost thinking of neglecting these test.
I wish I could fight off my torturous memories of my rape. I detest any man touching my privates, doctors included. What am I to do ?
My overall unnerving health situation "both physical and mental" often places me at odds with doctors and nurses in general with good reason based on bad experiences with the medical profession. I state this without trying to sound off as being cynical or judgmental against the overall medical profession which for the most part I have a lot of respect for. I began my arduous road to recovery five years ago on January 3rd, 2003. Twenty-three years prior to that I buried and blanked-out most of the painful horrors of my rape past in my subconscious. Looking at hindsight I suspect all those painful horrors and festering memories of my rape past were really at the surface without my resolute sanity permitting my conscious to deal with such extreme pain. It took twenty-three years of life's ups and downs for that emotional ticking time bomb to blow it's fuse causing me to have a major nervous break down five years ago.
My personal critique and prognostication of today's self-professed "can-do-no-wrong" consummate medical profession often places me at odds with the unscrupulous indifferent behaviors of numerous doctors, nurses, and shrinks who are increasingly present in today's overall medical scene, largely due to increasing work load stress, the lack of staff and resources. Don't get me wrong; I'm not black-listing the medical profession. Not many doctors and nurses have the time or patience to listen to one lone male rape victim who has a differentiating host of fears to address.
Meanwhile; a male rape victim is forced to suck-up his own fears and pain because their are a lot of indifferent people who just don't give a rats ass about someone else's struggling painful problems and legitimate worries.
In the end due to personal health reasons I am forced to deal with the indignity of having invasive medical procedures without any doctor or nurse truly listening to my fears and concerns.
I had a lot of respect for my last family doctor who retired just over two years ago. I had him for thirty years. He was very understanding and compassionate about my past which I revealed to him in painstaking detail in an addressed letter. He was not only the best doctor I ever had, but; a respected friend. It's damned difficult when you build up a trusting relationship with a professional doctor only to sadly see him retire because of being overworked and burnt-out due to a shortage of doctors. He now devotes his efforts in the palliative care unit at the local city hospital. My new family physician; a female who took over my former family doctors practice is difficult to relate to. She is strictly business and emotionally stoic. I don't even have the luxury of finding another physician.
I have no qualms about seeing a female physician if only her disposition would grant more pliancy and candor.
Damn get a life why don't she. They say if you want to understand and embrace the virtue of humility.
Be prepared to be humiliated. I have felt humiliated for almost the last thirty years.
The worst damned part that goes against my favor is that I have to embarrassingly admit that I am Androphobic.
No I didn't say Homophobic....("Androphobic")
Much of that was induced by the horrors of my torturous rape.
Now how the hell does a Heterosexual/Asexual male rape victim convey that to any medical professional without being likely ridiculed.
Most woman who undergo invasive medical procedures by a male doctor usually have a female nurse in the room with them.
Now how humiliating is it for a man to ask for a female nurse to be in the room when he is undergoing invasive medical procedures.
Not very damned likely. And how would a female nurse evaluate a male patient if he made such a request.
It's highly probable that the female nurse would surmise that such a male patients request was perverted.
So where the hell does that leave me. We live in a stereotyped society preconditioned to biasedly prejudge certain situations
that do not seem the expected norm.
I work in a large Operating Room as a Male nurse. Frequently females have requested Female Only Staff and I had to have my assignment changed. When males comes in a ask for the same sex caregivers, they are told no. Why the double standard??
The double standard is there because female staff care about female patient. They do NOT care at all about the feelings of male patients, they only do the job for money. Compassion, care, empathy etc are all alien to them
hi Keagirl
enjoyed the site. any words of wisdom for an aspiring female urologist (in light of being a US IMG)?
much appreciated.
why not go an practice in Obs/Gyn, where you would be more welcome?
Well gentlemen; all I can say is that if your a male patient no matter what your public status you can "sometimes" expect to be crap out of luck finding genuine empathy from both moody female and male medical professionals.
Sadly; indifference has for a long time been the medical professions worst troubled demeanor. Numerous medical universities lecture doctor wannabes on transference and professional distance apart from their patients.
Transference is inevitable. Every human being has an impact on one another no matter how affable each individual chooses to interact with one another. Attitudes define the character of every individual no matter what their public status.
This applies ("equally") between doctor, nurse, and patient.
Most certainly; no doctor or nurse is helpful in a sick room, E.R., or triage area, unless they have a spirit of cheerfulness. Every doctor and nurse ought to have two things before they treat a patient. An incision and a sense of humor. An incision so they know the value of pain; and a tactful sense a humor in order that they know how to diffuse happiness. This incision need not be physical but should be genuinely symbolic in the sense that there should be a deep appreciation of the physical and mental sufferings of others. Their is nothing that adds to the longevity of sickness and pain as a poor disposition and indifference.
She's probably a very unhappy
female prison guard!
In general I find doctors and medical staff these days to be total assholes - up on their pedestals they tend to develope the "god complex". How then are you any different than anyone else? Based upon my own experiences with local medical personnel - they give incompentant advice, lie to you, talk and gossip about their patients, and are inconsiderate.
The first so called doctor told me my varicocele was due to infection and wanted to know about my sexual activity. I knew this guy was either a lier or must have graduated from Grenada because I am a virgin (and damn proud of it). Even more so after I looked online and found what they are caused by.
Worse yet I have neighbor who has relatives and friends who work at the local hospital. This neighbor gets his kicks by finding out what you were treated for and walking past your home and talking about. So I was treated to the neighbor walking past my place with his family members and talking about my problem while he kept glancing down at my crotch and laughing about the fact that I was a "virgin".
I had previously worked with people who have spouses that work at hospitals. These people all pull the same crap - have their buds look up your medical records to try and get the goods on you. There is no security.
I once had a basic physical done by a male doctor, to apply for a job, at a clinic that does this for many manufacturers. I routinely shave body hair (many swimmers and body builders do this) and at the time my genitals and legs were bare. He obviously wrote this in his report because several days later I was in the local department store and one of the nurses who worked there made made a b-line over to where I was standing with her male companion and looked down at my crotch and said "he don't have no hair down there (laughter)".
The second so called doctor, a urologist, was worse. I am sitting in the exam room still dressed waiting and then I hear the dr. outside saying "well who do we have here" to someone and then he walks in with a female and immediately says "So your having problems with your...". Fucking asshole, I didn't give any permission for a student to come in, let alone a female. I am extremely uncomfortable just being there with a male doctor and this ass don't ask permission and just comes in like this is going down so he can impress some young female student. He's fucking lucky I was not undressed or I would have knocked his block off.
I was really pissed and asked what is SHE doing there and he had her leave after telling me "she could leave if it made me feel uncomfortable". Why in the hell wouldn't it feel bad - have some strange person of the opposite sex look over your sexual organs.
Of course this ass wanted to cut me open and didn't tell about alternative non-surgical methods (I later found online) that don't involve cutting you open like a side of beef. And he wanted to do a scrotal ultrasound. From what I found online thats only done if its unclear what's wrong - the veins are so large they are causing the scrotum to bulge out. All he wants is to run another unnecessary test for more money. Lets see I just got done explaining I don't want any females and he wants me to send me to do a unnecessary test where a female is going to put tape across my thighs, lift my privates up to suspend them on the tape, spread jelly on them, move a ultrasound sensor over my privates, and then wash my privates off. go to hell in a hand basket.
He was so incompetent that I had point out the large skin bridges leading from the side of the penis to the head (from a improperly healed circumcision). Oh but he wanted to fix that too (more money), but no way could he provide a male nurse, too inconvenient. Oh, but I must have been taking up too much time as he wasn't interested in hearing about other problems I thought might be related - like say why the veins in my forearms have increased to the size of my little pinky finger (painful) or the ones in my legs. Gee think I could have something wrong with my circulatory system thats related to the varicocele - well who cares about that and the severe muscle cramps you are having - I need to see another patient for more money.
I prefer to stay away from doctors and medical personnel. I am not being treated like some farm animal you are examining. I'd rather be dead than go through your humiliating tests and condescending attitude, and treatments (often unnecessary) that leave me worse off and poor. When the pain gets too great one if better off offing themselves - there such a thing as quality of life and I am not getting it from today's medical staff.
What you have described is the
Double Standard that we men
experinece in health care. This
crap must stop!
I have always been more comfortable with a female doctor. They seem to take more time and care more about there patients. I am uncomfortable seeing a male urologist and I have not been able to find a female in my city. Are there any suggestions on how to find one in my area? I feel embaressed to call the local urology offices and ask. Is it acceptable for a male to ask for a female urologist? I have been looking for a long time.
Feminist fanatic Quacks need to think twice before being as abrasive and "clever"as kia girl. If they really think men will put up with this shit long term, they really are misguided.
I HATE NURSES!!!
I adhere to the "customer" concept of choice. Before this century I had never had a female doctor, but because I had no job at the time had to depend on the VA for treatment.
My philosophy since then is to see who you feel most comfortable with. I believe most doctors are qualified. I have never had any problems with treatment. The problem for me has been more "bedside manner"
At the VA I had almost all female doctors. I was looked at totally naked by some, more conservatively by others. What gets done, in my opinion, lies almost totally in that "bedside" relationship which if bad will go nowhere toward helping you.
In other words if you're a man and you feel more comfortable with a female doctor then go for it. But if you have trouble getting that doctor to look at you thoroughly, or if you feel guilty about asking, then find another doctor.
I have female surgeon, GP and PA, all of whom have examined my genitals or done rectals. None of them embarrassed me. Ironically the PA was more comfortable with the nudity largely because I believe we just got on well.
Prudishness, which has become a sickness in this country, should not be a part of medicine.
And, yes, I agree with several bloggers. Women are better caregivers.
Sorry, but when you use a brush to paint a gender, "females are better caregivers" you really are sexist. I have had great male doctors and not so great, the same with females, one of the worst I had was a female, no bedside manner at all. Sexist is generalizing all by a characteristic ie gender.
Choice of gender in medical events such as urology and gyn does not make one sexist. It isn't about the provider it is what makes one comfortable, and it isn't that you don't want a provider of a certain gender, its you don't feel comfortable for THAT paticular procedure, it is the procedure not the provider that defines the preference.
On the other hand, condmening somone for having a preference of an intimate procedure while having one of your own does make you a hypocrit. And the inablity to recognize that on the surface to the point where you complain and expect people to agree is amazing or arrogant at best.
Sorry, if you expect me to accept something that isn't comfortable for me just to be politically correct your going to be sadly mistaken. Its about the patient, not the provider...who cares if they don't feel the patient has a right to choose what makes them comfortable, they can just crawl in the BMW that they bought with money from their paitents and drive to the home the patients money bought and have a drink that the patients money bought...that is what they get out of the deal ..alan
I don't know why people can't read properly. The urologist does not complain about the man refusing her because he is embarrassed. She gets that. She only complains about his rudeness. In the second story, she has a right to complain about sexism, as the second patient does not refuse treatment out of modesty, but because he believes a woman cannot be a competent doctor. I don't think a male doctor has ever been considered incompetent because he is male.
So, the title Sexism at its "best", I can read that just fine, and to include the rude comments under that title is a pretty clear statement. Rudeness is not a male only trait. And I would take issue with her statement have you ever heard of a female....I was with my wife for the birth of our second child, there was a woman in the next cubicle, there was a male RN helping that night, he checked my wife, went next door, introduced himself and the woman told him he was not a doctor and she would not have a man checking her out...when he started to explain there had been a call off and he was the only one there right then she started screaming at him to get the F out, you could hear her all over the place. I have talked to and read numerous places where females refuse male nurses and doctors just becasue they are male...some made the statement they wanted someone who has the same plumbing, others they wanted someone who had been through what they had, some say females are more caring and take more time and that makes them a better doctor, so this isn't a issue that is restricted to one gender. When males make the same statements they are sexist. The fact that she uses this title, and uses the analogy that this behavior is restricted to only males give you a pretty good picture of what is going on. Sometimes being able to read means reading what isn't written as well as what is.....
Yes, I have heard these comments too re same plumbing etc. They are still empathy and modesty issues, separate from sexism. Perhaps too, with your example of the woman in the next cubicle, you could cut the woman some slack for her rudeness, as she WAS IN LABOR.
But this female urologist was dismissed by the patient because in her words " he basically refused the have the procedure done because of a lack of confidence in the fact that I was a female physician". From what I am reading into this, he probably was of the generation that believed women did not have equal intelligence as men. Sexism pure and simple. For all the reasons women have refused male doctors, I have never come across a woman say, I don't want a male doctor because he could not possibly be as intelligent as a woman.
When the post was created and the title allocated by "keagirl" only the first posting was contemplated/existed. She was offended that he did not humour her before leaving. The guy was uncomfortable and embarrassed, "cut him some slack"....... he handled the only way he knew. The so called professional should have just accepted he was under stress or uncomfortable and put it behind her, not sulked and started a blog to stamp her little (oops is that sexist) feet.
WHEN I CONSIDER A PHYSICIAN, I LOOK FOR QUALIFICATIONS FIRST AND PUT SEX ASIDE. NO MATTER WHAT THE SEX OF THE PHYSICIAN, IT IS EMBARASSING AND IF YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM THEIR WILL BE OPPOSITE SEXES INVOLVED. REMEMBER THIS, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A CHOICE IN EMBALMERS.
THE KEY TO SOLVE THE SEXISM PROBLEM, IS TO GET YOUR BODY IN SHAPE SO YOU WON'T BE EMBARASSED BUT PROUD TO SHOW OF THE BODY GOD GAVE YOU.
The patient should have taken the responsibility of knowing whether his doctor was a male or female, especially if it mattered to him.
But for you to just assume he
refused you because he thought women were not as capable as men is nonsense. You can assume anything you want. But until you actually ask, actually speak to your patients, ask their preferences, make sure your front staff make things clear -- you wont' know how people think. Until you start doing surveys to find out how patients feel about opposite gender care, you'll never really know.
And this absurd idea that females aren't rude? Give us all a break. What planet are you from? I have too much respect for women to think that they any different than men as far as rudeness goes. Passive aggressiveness is rudeness, too. Just less honest, more deceptive.
I've heard many stories of men who made appointments with the male doctors and were met in the exam room by a female doctor who was taking male doctor's place. No notice. Not warning. No phone call. Nothing. Just the expectation that gender doesn't matter.
Now, it's possible the first man you describe is a sexist. It's also possible he just didn't want a female to do that kind of intimate care. He should have checked. But from what I've read in this thread of yours, you're the one, Doctor, who leans to being the sexist.
When it comes to patient preference for specific genders for certain kinds of care, some doctors just don't get it -- unless, of course, it pertains to their own personal care. Then they get it. They also know the can pull strings, get special treatment in certain hospitals from other doctor friends. Of course, all this is under cover. Nobody outside the hospital culture ever hears about it.
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